tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post4472016445242441231..comments2024-03-21T20:29:29.030+13:00Comments on Life Behind the <u>IR</u>on <u>D</u>rape: Centre Politics: The Economics of Destruction. (Conservative Party V. Libertarianz)Mark Hubbardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-84870963454617678392013-11-15T09:05:56.408+13:002013-11-15T09:05:56.408+13:00True. One of my main themes here is Antonio Gramsc...True. One of my main themes here is Antonio Gramsci and the school curriculum ... Gramsci was founder of Italian Communist Party who said socialism would not beat the free West with the gun, but by taking the minds of the young. With secondary teachers 95% unionised in PPTA (and similar with primary teachers), he was right. I've more than one post in here somewhere on need to take the state out of education.<br /><br />But the one above thinks he/she is talking logic, yet his/her very first post contradicts itself to point of not being intelligible.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-69330067511860217992013-11-15T08:52:07.136+13:002013-11-15T08:52:07.136+13:00They are systematically inculcated into socialism....They are systematically inculcated into socialism. Look at the current PM: state house, state school, DPB kid. What's the result? more money for state housing, more money for state schools, more money for the DPB!<br /><br /><br />It is absolutely no accident that the only politician in NZ who ever cut benefits - Ruth Richardson - was NOT state educated. Same in the UK, the only politicians who actually cut benefits generally went to Eton.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-68177595297718377212013-11-15T07:51:37.605+13:002013-11-15T07:51:37.605+13:00Could you quote me where I've even advocated a...Could you quote me where I've even advocated any taxation?<br /><br />Your first post:<br /><br /><i>Taxation is just other people enforcing their property rights. Why is OK for you to enforce your property rights but not for other people to enforce theirs?</i><br /><br />Quite apart from the fact that paragraph is a mish mash of contradiction, you then went on to say my income, the result of my effort and my mind, belongs to the party who can have it <i>by force</i>.<br /><br />You then said <i>but whatever the merits, you need to argue your case on who deserves what, not just claim that it is self-evident and magically not force.</i><br /><br />That is, if the man next door who has not planned his life like I have, not sacrificed short term pleasure to long term goals, therefore has less than me, can then say he is disadvantaged by having less money, and thus deserves my income, fools like you would say yes, we must solve poverty and income inequality, thus my income vests in him.<br /><br />The society you have logically created is one where the entity with the biggest gun gets to take the effort and mind of others: to enslave them. You would have that entity must be the state, which is sanctioned by the people, the tyranny of a majority, to take the property of hard working people and redistribute to groups state officials deem arbitrarily as more deserving. You would base this on income inequality.<br /><br />At (your) logical conclusion, I would be foolish to expend my effort, as I can't own that effort. The only way I will work in such a society is by force. Thus, you need to create a full surveillance state to enforce and ensure I work for the state. To ensure the sacrifice of my life, my pursuit of happiness, to total strangers. Through history the policing of that surveillance and enforcement has been called various things, KGB, Stasi, et al, but the result is the same. A slave state and human misery, and poverty that you cannot imagine.<br /><br />In denying property rights and a morality of man qua man, you obliterate, utterly, the very existence of an individual human being. Understand me: you are an immoral monster.<br /><br />Seriously, go away.<br />Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-42640882091902476502013-11-15T01:15:18.953+13:002013-11-15T01:15:18.953+13:00Could you quote me where I've even advocated a...Could you quote me where I've even advocated any taxation? All I have been doing is pointing out the gaping flaws in your logic, and that your logic is no better than the language of taxation advocates. Could you try address any points I've made instead of pretending I have opinions I don't have?<br /><br />Other systems (good or bad) are just defining property rights in different ways. Do you accept that? If not then you're clearly libertarianism is a religion rather than a philosophy for you.<br /><br />Stop with the name calling. It doesn't impress anybody except the infantile.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-78874530127975424532013-11-14T19:24:35.956+13:002013-11-14T19:24:35.956+13:00They're scary, I'll give you that :)They're scary, I'll give you that :)Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-29245419083453825882013-11-14T17:54:36.239+13:002013-11-14T17:54:36.239+13:00Products of state schools shouldn't be entitle...Products of state schools shouldn't be entitled to vote, or frankly, to post on blogs.<br /><br />It really is that simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-46319080699138118252013-11-14T16:03:04.101+13:002013-11-14T16:03:04.101+13:00Tell me why I'm going to bother working if I d...Tell me why I'm going to bother working if I don't 'deserve' to keep my income; someone more 'deserving' than me has a prior claim on it?<br /><br />Tell me that. Why am I going to bother working?Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-83152553865853740682013-11-14T15:57:53.329+13:002013-11-14T15:57:53.329+13:00If you read my comments, I haven't advocated f...If you read my comments, I haven't advocated for anything, actually, except for you to use logic and not resort to arguments no better than "the bible is true because it says so in the bible".<br /><br />Meanwhile you sound like a raving Marxist with your view that hard work is what entitles people to things.<br /><br />> Okay, I deserve a million dollars. What's your argument for or against that?<br /><br />What's yours? Their daddy had a million dollars? I thought hard work was what entitled people to things? Defend that with your flawless theory of justice, this should be interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-8557356287158479152013-11-14T15:44:33.313+13:002013-11-14T15:44:33.313+13:00Answer the above, and this question.
If I don'...Answer the above, and this question.<br /><br />If I don't 'own' my income, because someone more deserving than me owns it (hence me), why the hell am I even going to bother working?<br /><br />Now, how do you think you're going to have a society work on this basis?Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-65503686118084279352013-11-14T15:39:45.388+13:002013-11-14T15:39:45.388+13:00No!
Your argument, if it can be called that, coul...No!<br /><br />Your argument, if it can be called that, could only come from someone who's never earned an honest days income.<br /><br />Again. I've just spent 80 hours of hard work, and I've made x income out of my efforts. Quit all the bullshit and theory. By what right does another entity, including a government, have a claim on that income?<br /><br /><i>But whatever the merits, you need to argue your case on who deserves what,...</i><br /><br />Okay, I deserve a million dollars. What's your argument for or against that?<br /><br />You are advocating the most barbaric type of society that ends up eating itself in an orgy of violence. Look a my latest post on Venezuela.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-91891934410244348022013-11-14T15:21:47.227+13:002013-11-14T15:21:47.227+13:00OK that's better, at least you are giving a re...OK that's better, at least you are giving a reason. <br /><br />What you are doing here is arguing a theory of justice or deserts or entitlements. You are entitled to A, B, C because reasons X, Y, Z.<br /><br />What you need to remember, is that all existing and theoretical systems of government do this too. They are all deciding who is entitled to what, and backing that up with force.<br /><br />You can argue that your theory of who deserves what is better. That is fine. What you *can't* say that your theory is better because it's "just enforcing property rights": Every system is "just enforcing property rights".<br /><br />Every theory has its flaws ("inheritance", "rent-seeking", "natural monopolies", and "unequal opportunity") are some of the flaws in yours. But whatever the merits, you need to argue your case on who deserves what, not just claim that it is self-evident and magically not force.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-21465403785741211832013-11-14T14:33:40.072+13:002013-11-14T14:33:40.072+13:00Let's start again, you said:
Why is it "...Let's start again, you said:<br /><br /><i>Why is it "your" income as opposed to the government's?</i><br /><br />Because I worked for it and it vests in me.<br /><br />You tell me why the government owns my effort, risk taking, and intellect?Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-29036521713763016962013-11-14T14:25:04.546+13:002013-11-14T14:25:04.546+13:00Insane is a guy who sets up an entire blog about h...Insane is a guy who sets up an entire blog about his philosophy and can't even answer a couple of basic questions about his philosophy.<br /><br />I ask some really simple questions, I answered yours, but you have resorted to insult after insult instead of answering any. <br /><br />Anybody reading this will be under no illusions about who has won this debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-29867430786719893772013-11-14T13:44:08.840+13:002013-11-14T13:44:08.840+13:00Now again: tell me why it's wrong for the gove...<i>Now again: tell me why it's wrong for the government to withhold your property from you but fine for you to withhold the government's property from the government.</i><br /><br />You are certifiably insane: go away.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-61139407739825664782013-11-14T13:32:08.177+13:002013-11-14T13:32:08.177+13:00Do you even read what I have written?
You: why s...Do you even read what I have written? <br /><br />You: why shouldn't the state take your car<br />Me: property rights law<br /><br />You are the one arguing against property rights here!<br /><br />Now again: tell me why it's wrong for the government to withhold your property from you but fine for you to withhold the government's property from the government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-45690605046962228452013-11-14T13:14:18.814+13:002013-11-14T13:14:18.814+13:00You're saying if my need to greater than yours...You're saying if my need to greater than yours, I can simply take your car?<br /><br />What about if you had sacrificed current consumption and lifestyle to buy the car, whereas I'd lived without a thought to the future, enjoying the present, not caring less about the fact I didn't have the income to bring up eight children?<br /><br />I suspect you are a troll, so keep posting. I can combine your posts into a future piece about the death of the free West, and how it was lost, totally.Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-84597840788128494742013-11-14T12:36:01.891+13:002013-11-14T12:36:01.891+13:00Answer to your question: property rights law. Tis ...Answer to your question: property rights law. Tis you, not me, who has a problem with the concept of property rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-58135219090421092532013-11-14T08:07:07.896+13:002013-11-14T08:07:07.896+13:00Oh for Christ's sake you're not a troll. S...Oh for Christ's sake you're not a troll. State schooling has come to you.<br /><br />Let's go back to basics. Say I have a greater need for your car because, say, I've got eight children and not enough income to provide for them: why shouldn't the state take your car and give it to me? You can afford to buy another one after all.<br /><br />(My privilege, which given I'm ethically bound to not harm you, is no concern of yours or mine. It is only a censor, anymore, to shut me up with. Answer my question above.)Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-64927980815853958602013-11-13T23:20:03.358+13:002013-11-13T23:20:03.358+13:00Cute how you don't even attempt a rebuttal and...Cute how you don't even attempt a rebuttal and instead resort to unoriginal strawman insults. Amazing that your entire philosophy is so weak and lightweight that it can be demolished with a couple of basic questions. <br /><br />You want to maximize your own privilege. That's fine, but just admit that, instead of pretending that you have actual principles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-74662893747617967312013-11-13T19:04:45.901+13:002013-11-13T19:04:45.901+13:00In the unlikely instance you're not a troll, G...In the unlikely instance you're not a troll, Google USSR and see how your slave world ends up.<br /><br />Wait a minute: are you a teacher?Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-4257508335174141972013-11-13T17:47:07.166+13:002013-11-13T17:47:07.166+13:00Why is it "your" income as opposed to th...Why is it "your" income as opposed to the government's? All property is just perceptions of entitlement backed up by force. The burden is on you to explain why your perception of entitlement is more worthy than theirs. You can't just say "it's mine" because anybody can say that about anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-46748731447048170282013-11-13T17:20:58.481+13:002013-11-13T17:20:58.481+13:00Sorry? Who owns my income? How do complete strange...Sorry? Who owns my income? How do complete strangers have a claim on that as 'their' property?<br /><br />Mark Hubbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02541153163041831880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560636882691523439.post-86961754107673782132013-11-13T16:49:03.988+13:002013-11-13T16:49:03.988+13:00Taxation is just other people enforcing their prop...Taxation is just other people enforcing their property rights. Why is OK for you to enforce your property rights but not for other people to enforce theirs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com